A pretty intense episode, don't you think? Just to remind you...
One of its strengths, I think, is that you never can quite tell what it's about, or who's it about, or how we are supposed to feel about the characters, cops and criminals. So: address one of the following questions.
1. Detective Garner expressed no sympathy for perps, criminals. Did you have any sympathy for the criminals here? Why or why not?
2. Ellison, played by Robin Williams, demands Felton be taken off the case after he hears Beau and the others making fun of him. This is followed by Gee, the Lt., saying, "[[Felton's] not going to feel what you feel. None of us are...You need him to solve your murder, not to grieve." It's possible Giardello is just covering for his insensitive, jerky detective. Or else, he doesn't disapprove of Felton and the others' behavior. Make a case for the way the detectives behave in this scene. And does it make them bad human beings?
3. What's the role of race in this episode?
4. Howard can't let go of believing that Vaughn Perkins didn't do the killing. But he did. And at the end she seems...what? And why would she feel this way?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I think that Ellison was right in the way he reacted over the cops mocking of what little knowledge he had in his wife's murder. I honestly think homicide cops can become insensitive when they deal with death on a daily bases. That is why the story plot involving Howard was great in the episode. She has sympathy for the criminal and never even interacts with Ellison, except for the note.
ReplyDeleteConcerning the Lt, I think he was covering up for the other cops poor behavior and speaking from the heart. The LT tells Ellison that the cops shouldn't be grieving and that they need to be solving his wife's murder; all that is true, but the part of question John quoted specifically was the part of the LT conversation with Ellison when he was trying to cover up for their rudeness. The part of the conversation when the LT is telling Ellison all about his first case and how he remembers it so well is speaking more from the soul. He honestly tells Ellison that cops don't remember their 40 or 50th case.
I don't believe that the cops mockery of Ellison little knowledge makes them bad people. Most cops are hard cord, which makes them a little cold and insensitive after a couple years on the job.
I am going to answer number 2. I do not think that the jokes that the detectives were making make them bad people. With a job like being a homicide detective you cannot get attached to every family or every crime that happens. Like Lt. Gee said he still remembers his first homicide but his 40th or 50th he doesn't. If everyday you had to go into work and find a killer, and you got attached to every single one of the cases, you wouldn't be able to do your job. Being a cop you have to be hard as a rock and detach yourself so that your bias and feelings for the family do not get in the way of doing your job. I think that the detectives making jokes about how people talk about guns, one shows how many homicide cases they have worked. Two that making jokes is a way to show themselves and others that they don't connect in any way with the cases. I think, as a cop there is no way to do your job if you attach yourself to every case because in the end it will burn you out.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like in the cop shows we’ve been watching the cops are all supposed to leave their emotions out of the cases. In this case it seems like Howard forgot and brought her own emotions into this case. Howard wanted so badly for the boy to not be guilty she got wrapped up in the case. Felton says the Detectives aren’t supposed to grieve, but in this situation, Howard felt and grieved for the family of the boy who was guilty. I think she felt this way because she saw the grief it brought the aunt and the mother. It seemed as if she wasn’t able to let go of the fact that good people can be guilty. When she then found out that he actually was guilty it was that much harder for her to give it up and close the case. In the end it seems like she feels disappointed and upset that the boy was truly guilty, and she also seems upset with herself for letting her emotions get in the way. She wanted so badly for the boy to not be the killer that she felt angry with herself for even thinking he might be innocent and feeling for him.
ReplyDeleteTo answer question number two, I don't think that the detectives' behavior makes them bad human beings. I also don't think that Lt. Gee approves of this behavior, but what he's saying is true. It's the job of the detectives to solve the case. Look at evidence and leads, and try to find the killer. I don't believe they can afford to get emotionally involved in each case. This may not make sense to someone like Mr. Ellison, someone who is deeply involved in the case and is feeling tremendous amounts of guilt. I don't think it's right that Ellison heard them making fun of him, and I don't think they should have been doing it so openly, but at the same time, they're doing their job. They have no connection to the Ellisons, and they should not become attached (as Detective Howard does in this case). To the detectives, everything is removed. The cases are obviously real, but to them, it's just another case that's part of their job. I obviously understand Mr. Ellison's anger at the detectives though. I think this is similar to what we heard from Detective Garner. She said something along the lines of "I don't feel anything," and she also said "I have no empathy." In order to do her job to what she feels is the fullest extent, she has to be a "hardass" and not get involved in anything she's doing. I think it's the same with the detectives.
ReplyDeleteTo answer number 4, I think that Howard feels, in the end, as though some innocence has been destroyed. I realize that in a literal sense, Vaughn Perkins was not innocent of the murder, so his innocence has been destroyed in the sense of the case. However, more than that, Vaughn was a goodhearted person who didn't want to kill anything. He was a nice and rather innocent character, with the detectives and according to his family. Howard understood that, and she thought that that meant that Vaughn couldn't have been guilty of murder. She believed that when a person was goodhearted, they didn't kill people. When she found out that Vaughn was guilty, she found that innocent characters no longer were innocent of crimes. In a way, her whole perception of the world was flipped upside down. Just as she finds that Vaughn is guilty of the crime, she loses an innocent and naive part of her as well. She feels as though there is no innocence. She feels as though goodness has betrayed her and fallen through.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Detective Garner is right in saying she doesn't have any sympathy for criminals. I do agree with her saying "i am on duty 24/7" and then saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do anything to put my family in danger." i understand why she would say the two because they do make sense. if i was a cop i would probably feel on duty all of the time. on the other hand i see why she wouldn't want to put her family in danger. with being a detective and having "the skin for it" you are not going to let yourself have sympathy for anyone. if you sympathysed with the criminal or whomever, you wont be able to get the job done right. yes there is a line that they can cross but with detective garner i am sure she knows where that line is drawn. i do not know detective garner personally but i could tell from how she told her stories that she knew how to get her job done and done right.
ReplyDeleteI am 50/50 about being sympathetic towards Vaughn. I have some sympathy for Vaughn because we know it wasn't in his nature to kill that women. I am also glad that his honesty came forth and he stood up for what he did and knew what punishment he deserved whether he mean to kill her or not. The other half of me does not have sympathy for Vaughn because he shot the women. He did not have to shoot the women after she refused to give him the locket. Vaughn could have walked away. Vaughn could have made the chose to shoot the women or walk away and he chose to shoot her.
I think that this show does a good job of blurring the line between good and bad, as it is in real life. In the first episode that we saw, it showed a good cop doing bad things. In this episode it shows us vice versa; how good, and even somewhat innocent the criminal is. True, he did commit the crime, and I don't think he should necessarily be released from jail or relieved of punishment. But, like the cop in the first episode, he had good intentions, and even good morals. It was hard for me to watch a person like this get thrown in jail, not because he didn't commit the crime, but because I feel he didn't deserve the punishment he was given. I think that the law draws a good line between good and bad most of the time. Lots of criminals and innocent people stand very much on one side or the other, but in cases like this (and the one in the previous episode) I feel that the law doesn't do as good a job of helping people. Which is the purpose of the legal system... right?
ReplyDeleteIn this situation I had sympathy for the criminals. These criminals, especially the one who shot the gun, were not hardened, ruthless criminals. The boy who shot the gun seemed like he just made a mistake, a huge, terrible, life-altering mistake. From the background we hear about the boy, it seems like he knows exactly how the family feels, which makes him even more horrified at what he did. I feel sympathy for him because it was obvious that he not only ruined his life, but the lives of the family members, and he was well aware of it. I feel sympathy for him because he, as proclaimed by his mother and aunt, was sensitive and a good kid. Yet, all of a sudden, something happened to him and his life was over in a second.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to address the first question. I'm sort of ambiguous towards the situation. Vaughn murdered the women and he definetly deserved to be punished. I'm glad he admitted to the crime because I hate it when criminals don't tell the truth. However, I felt bad for him because he got caught up with the wrong crowd and as a result, he ruined his life. When I saw Vaughn in the cell I thought of the scene where his aunt contrasted her two nephews. She said that one was in school and the other(Vaughn) was on the streets. That scene made me sympathize for Vaughn because since his brother turned out to be successful, I know that he could have done the same thing. Unfortunately, he chose the wrong path. What's really sad is that these kind of tragic events happen in reality.
ReplyDeleteI decided to answer the first question. I still do not have any sympathy for the criminals. I still agree with Detective Garner that criminals do not deserve sympathy. It is a clear fact that these three people partook in the conscious thought out murder. This was a planned attack in which the murderers had time to think about what they were going to do. They had become murderers and took a mother from her two young children and a husband. This making what they did much worse. I don't think any criminals no matter age, race, or sex should receive a different punishment or receive sympathy if they have knowingly committed something wrong.
ReplyDeleteIt’s obvious that the detectives are so desensitized to death that they can make jokes about their cases – I’d almost say that it’s their job to be desensitized. It could be argued that the more desensitized they are, the less bias they have regarding a case. Giardello’s line about remembering his first homicide case so specifically yet not being able to differentiate number forty from number fifty particularly stuck with me. No matter whether Giardello was trying to cover up or defend Felton, the quote has the same impact – Ellison may be putting up with death for the first time (or close to it), but the detectives deal with it every day. The same desensitization that allows them to make jokes about homicides also allows them to be better detectives, which enforces Giardello’s point that Ellison needs Felton to solve the case rather than to grieve. The incident does not make the detectives bad human beings: they’re merely doing their job. It’s alright for them to make jokes about the cases that they’re working, but they crossed a line in forgetting that Ellison was in the room adjacent to them and able to hear everything. They forget that while they are desensitized, Ellison certainly isn’t.
ReplyDeleteI do and I don’t feel sympathy for Vaughn. I did feel sympathy for him because he was trying to do the right thing by taking the gun from his friends. He believed that he would have less of a chance of actually shooting it than his friends. I don’t think that Vaughn really knew what he was doing when he shot the gun because from what is relatives were saying about him he didn’t seem like the kind of guy that would do that which leads me to feel sympathy towards him. However, I also don’t because he did have a past record of breaking the law even though they were less severe crimes such as shoplifting. This shows that he did have a past record and so did his friends. Knowing that he and especially his friends had a past illegal activity makes it so I don’t feel sympathy towards them. This is because they knew what they were getting themselves into and by Vaughn choosing to hang out with these people and partake in the robbery and murder he was going to get caught either way.
ReplyDeleteAnswering number 1, I did sort of feel bad for the convicted felon. I feel like while he may have in fact committed the crime, there was more to the story, and he is trying to cover for his friends. The impression I got is that he was trying to prevent anyone from getting hurt when he took the gun. I'm not sure what happened after that, but I think his intent was good. I know that doesn't make up for what he did at all, but it does make me sympathetic. I don't think this was premeditated murder (this is manslaughter?). This may have made the difference for him between eventually getting out on parole or not.
ReplyDeleteI still think killing this woman was a heinous crime, but it's obviously not black and white here. We're not getting the whole story to the perp's discredit, and this makes me somewhat sympathetic.
I agree with Detective Garner in how she does not have sympathy for criminals if i was a cop. Cop's have to have that sort of mentality in order to do their job. Since i'm not a cop but a 16 yr old girl i have empathy for Vaughn. He said that he was trying to make sure that nothing bad would happen by having the gun in his hand. But the power overwhelmed him. I feel like when anyone has possession of a gun, without proper training, the power can overwhelm them. The power of possession takes over the situation. I am not saying that Vaughn could get away with it because of mental health reasons. I think that Vaughn realized that even though his emotions took over in that situation, he still had to deal with the consequences. Rarely do people ever pleed guilty and ask for a life sentence. That might have been dramatized but Vaughn took responsibility for his actions. I feel empathy for him but i also feel he should get credit for standing up and doing the right thing by facing his consequences head on.
ReplyDeleteI am answering number four. This is one of these situations where my beliefs are conflicting. While i belief that nothing justifies the killing of another human, but I also think that intent is very important when considering these things. It did not seem like the kid wanted to kill any one.
ReplyDeleteHe made a mistake, and it makes me really sad that he screwed up so badly. he wasn't a bad person, he was just nervous. I do believe that he needs to serve his sentence. The reason being that once we et one person of for "feeling guilty" then every psychopathic murderer would claim that he was sorry and that they were so guilty. So it is just a shitty situation.
To answer the first question I am kind of torn with my stand on sympathy towards these criminals. I say this only because I feel that Vaughn didn't want to kill the mother, but quite the opposite. I feel sympathy for him only because he seemed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was raised in a good neighborhood, he had a loving family, and he was truly sorry about what he had done, even though he knew he couldn't take it back. I do not feel sorry for the guy Marvin. He showed no remorse or sympathy for what happened (because the gun was his). It's hard to really see this in black and white (no pun intended) but i can't not feel some sympathy for Vaughn where as I feel none for Tweety and Marvin.
ReplyDeleteI am going to address question number 1. I have mixed feelings about this issue. I feel some sympathy for the criminals but at the same time I think what they did was really wrong. I had little sympathy for the criminals at the beginning; they killed a woman in front of her children just to get a necklace. Also the episode showed us the scenes with the aftermath of the killing and the way it affected the family, this made me feel little sympathy for the killers. By the end of the show and once I got the full story of Vaughn, I felt more sympathy for him. We got his story and it presented him as a good person that was very loving and would never do anything like that. We also see Vaughn admit to what he did and then take full responsibility which is something that takes a lot of strength and courage. He also tried to apologize Ellison which showed good character. Overall I think that the order in which things happened in the show and the order in which the audience got information shaped my thoughts on the criminals. I felt no sympathy for the criminals in the beginning but by the end of the show I felt a lot of sympathy for them.
ReplyDeleteI didn't really sympathize with these criminals. Even if they didn't intend to kill the women they still had every intent to rob her. The boys knew they were about to do something illegal and just like Detective Garner said these criminals are consciously breaking the law. And in Homicide the three men knew they were about to break the law even though I do not believe they considered killing someone. A woman lost her life for some jewelry and money and it didn't need to happen.
ReplyDeleteI agree with many people who have expressed that in this episode of Homicide, they felt both sympathy and no sympathy for the criminals. At the beginning of the episode, I felt no sympathy for the criminals, because they killed a mother in front of her children and husband all for a necklace and some money. I see no reason in this situation that the criminals should be shown any sympathy. In this particular scenario, I agree with Detective Garner. She said that she feels no empathy for any criminals because they know what they are doing and what they are potentially getting themselves into. The criminals in Homicide made the choice to go and rob the family and the consequences of killing the woman were drastic.
ReplyDeleteBut as more of Vaughn’s story was unraveled, I began to feel a small amount of sympathy for him. As his aunt and mother said, he was a good, sensitive kid and didn’t have the heart to kill anybody. Also, when the detectives read the letter that he wrote about how sorry he was, even though he knew that wouldn’t change anything, that was the moment I felt the smallest bit sympathetic towards him. At that point, you knew Vaughn had understood what he had done and felt terrible for it. As one of the detectives pointed out, it is not normal for a criminal to apologize and be completely honest for their terrible actions. Overall, I am sympathetic towards Vaughn up to the point that he was honest and felt terrible about what he had done, but I am not sympathetic due to the fact that the criminals did not need to shoot a woman only to steal some money and a necklace.
One of the things that really bothered me about detective Garner was that she was so "cold". I felt as though she was not motivated to do her job to help people but to get people in trouble. She told us that she felt no sympathy towards anyone because they know if they are doing something wrong. I think that as a cop it is your job to feel sympathy but not let it affect you. I think that cops should not want people to get in trouble and should do all they can to convince people not to do the crimes. Garner seemed as though she did not care if you did or didnt get in trouble as long as you got caught. I feel sympathy for criminals because people can make mistakes some bigger than others. I do not think that cops should feel no sympathy because it makes them different than the rest of us. I really respected Nicole for saying that she felt bad for the people sometimes because they were so stupid. That is the way that I belive cops should think.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: When the Lieutenant says that nobody will feel what Robin Williams feels is because the situation is so routine to them, that they have built up an emotional callous to the feelings produced by a murder. The detectives would not be able to do their job efficiently if they grieved over the murdered. This is because their job is to find the killer and emotions would only distract them from the objective. The detectives' motivation is because it's their job, not because they will miss the victim or because it caused the family sadness. Just because they joke doesn't mean they don't care or are happy about the murder. It only shows that they are professional enough to not to mix emotions with the case.
ReplyDelete